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Forum posts for Random Noise

Posted by phduffy on Aug 20, 2004
I didn't get to Pete Rose like I said I would
That will happen later.

And Canada lost 9-1 to Japan today. So they're tied for first.

If you're bored, and want to read various rants about vegetarians, pets, PETA, PETCO, libeterianism, Capital punishment, abortion, terrorism and other topics, fire this up:

Link to stuff

Posted by phduffy on Aug 23, 2004
Pete Rose. Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Some people think baseball should let them into the Hall of Fame. Pete Rose has more hits than anyone! And Ty Cobb was a racist, but we let him into the Hall of Fame!

Shoeless Joe wasn't a bad guy! I saw Field of Dreams!

These people are one of two things:
a) ignorant
b) complete fucknig idiots.

Shoeless Joe Jackson took money to throw baseball games. Despite what Kevin Costner thinks if Fields of Dreams, this is a proven fact. He signed a written confession and was convicted in a court of law. There is no doubt about his guilt by anyone who has seriously looked into the issue. For that reason, this monumental assault on the game of baseball (which almost killed baseball in the 20s), Shoeless Joe will never be in the Hall of Fame.

As for Pete Rose... I think baseball fucked up. What happened with him is that baseball placed him on the permanently ineligible list. THEN they said that people on the ineligible list can't be in the Hall of Fame. Which is sort of backwards. What they should have done is just let him be eligible for the vote. See, the writers wouldn't have voted for him anyways, since he committed a sin against baseball: betting on baseball while involved in the games.

In every clubhouse in every major city the rule about not being able to bet on baseball is posted. Pete Rose saw this rule thousands of times in his life. But he still fucked up. Now, it's true that Rose was never convicted in a court of law. But baseball wasn't trying to send him to jail. The Dowd report on Pete Rose may or may not have been fairly collected. Some suggest that Dowd had it in for Rose before he started, I don't know. What I do know is that Pete Rose 100% bet on baseball. No argument about that. I also know that Pete Rose 100% bet on games that he was managing. No argument about that. What I'm not sure of is whether or not Rose bet on his team to lose. However, IT DOESN'T MATTER. By betting on baseball Rose has allowed himself to associate with the same types of people that got Shoeless Joe in trouble.
What if Rose was in deep to the bookies, and they tell him to lose a game? Rose doesn't have to bet on that game, but he still throws it.
Also, what does Rose tell the bookies about the games his team is playing and he doens't bet on them? If Rose bets on his team to win the games on the 6th, 7th and 9th, is he going to manage to the best of his abilities on the 8th?
And Pete Rose is a jackass. This is a seperate issue, but the only reason he got the all time hits record is because he was the manager of his team, and he kept playing himself even though he was clearly an inferior baseball player. (One year he played first base and only hit 5 Home Runs). On his play he's a Hall of Famer, but not an inner circle one. Sort of like Nolan Ryan, they're both good players, Hall of Fame players, but not inner circle, or top 10 at their positions.

There are some sports at the Olympics that I don't really think should be there. These are the sports that are judged aesthetically. In the gymnastics competition the little girls all have to wear the appropriate amount of makeup. You lose points if your bra is showing (although I was told that the bras are built into their uniforms, so I"m not sure I understand that rule. Maybe it's the rythmic gymnastics?) Events like sycronized swimming and diving, figure skating and gymnastics are barely sports. I consider the essence of sports to be competition, and that's the test these sports fail. Curling gets knocked alot as an Olympic sport, but I think it's much more of a sport that those glorified beauty contests. (I am not saying curling is more athletic than those sports! Sports and athleticism are two different things!)

There are two big problems with those sports. One is that they're determined by how you look. Elvis Stojko used to have problems because his head was too big and the judges didn't like that. Pre insanity Tonya Harding had a hard time because her body was short and compact, not the long, leaner type that the judges prefer. This is nonsense.
Secondly, there is no competition in these sports. Assume, for the sake of argument, that I qualify for the Olympics in two sports, Figure Skating and Curling.
No matter how well I skate, no matter how hard I try, no matter how good I am, I can't win the figure skating. At most I can move to the head of my block. As an unknown in figure skating you can't win. However, the 1 time in a million that my curling team is good enough to beat the other teams, we end up winning. That's what makes a sport.

I realize that there is a fine line between a sport and a competition. Is competitive eating more of a sport than Figure Skating? What about professional Scrabble or Bridge? Although the decision is somewhat subjective, I think we can safely say which side most sports will come down on.

I think it's insane that Rythmic gymnastics is an Olympic sport but Golf, Rugby, Cricket and Squash aren't. There is no logic for that.

I'm torn on sports like boxing, wrestling and the martial arts. Olympic boxing is notoriously corrupt. However, I think that before we throw out the sport we should first try to fix the scoring. Then if it still doens't work we can get rid of it.

Also, woman's gymnastics in general is a disgusting event. I think pretty much every coach and parent of a girl that makes it to the Olympics should probably be charged with child abuse.
Here's a good article about it:

Well I for one
Posted by Miguel on Aug 23, 2004
Enjoyed this read because I always wondered about Pete Rose. I kinda felt bad for him because of that Jim Gray interviewed him during that all-star game and started accusing him live on camera and things got real awkward, real fast.

Controversial comments on the Olympics though. I think I agree, but gymnastics and all those other sports you mentioned require an insane amount of talent, strength and competition, and are extremely competitive.

The problem is with the judging. I think in the future when we have perfect Artificial Minds, they should do the judging based on how a perfect routine should be.

And women's gymnastics can be grueling and disgusting for the kids, but so is basically every sport played at such a high level. Steroids, weight management, insane pressure and requirements? They're par for the course on anything from basketball to boxing to shot putting.

Posted by Nerhael on Aug 23, 2004
The thing with some of those other sports, and Jessie said this, is that they really don't require you have to have starting training at a ridiculously young age.

You can get into boxing, shot put etc in your teens, and likely do fine. To do 'fine' in gymnastics, you have to start very, very young. Pretty much sacrificing a part of your childhood to it.

Posted by phduffy on Aug 23, 2004
Yeah, Jim Gray was kind of a dick. I can see where he was coming from, but maybe give the guy a night off.

However, the fact that Jim Gray was a dick doesn't mean Rose isn't a bigger dick. He's currently being investigated for cheating on his taxes, again! He already went to jail for this once.

The thing with Rose is that he's an everyman. When he played he didn't have the best body, and he wasn't the brightest guy. Plus, his nickname was Charlie Hustle, cause no matter what the situation he'd work his ass off. Plus he was always sliding head first and getting dirty, and alot of people thought that was the right way to play. And maybe it was. The problem is that when you assume that because he plays baseball the way you think it should be played, he also lives his life the way it should be lived. Pete Rose associates with bookies, scumbags, drug dealers, and convicts. He's not a very good man.

I think I agree, but gymnastics and all those other sports you mentioned require an insane amount of talent, strength and competition, and are extremely competitive.

I wouldn't disagree with that for a second. I'd just say, so what? Is that any different from Ballet? Or any kind of professional dancer? Ballet dancers are extrodanarily flexible and talented, and work more in a day then I do in a year. That doesn't mean they should be in the Olympics.
I'll bet that every member of the New York Symphony Orchestra has an insane amount of talent and drive, and that getting a spot in the orchestra is extremely competitive. That doens't mean I want to see Brian Williams introduce the picadillo blowff at the Olympics.

You're right about other sports vis a vis gymnastics... however, has Nerhael mentioned, the age thing is a big difference. Think about this. One of the worst things that can happen to a young gymnyst is that she gets her period. So they train them and put them on diets that will delay it as much as possible. That ain't right. Having breasts can be an obstacle in any sport, but in gymnastics the act of becoming a woman can doom you. That ain't right.

Maybe this wouldn't bother me as much if Golf, rugby, cricket and squash were Olympic sports. I don't like to see these other sports recognized at the highest level, while some other completely legitimate sports aren't.

Posted by Katie on Aug 23, 2004
that's what I call on anyone who says that gymnastics is not a sport. Now, I am not familiar with rythmic gymnastics so I am not as willing to stand up and fight for them. But gymnastics? It's most definitely a sport.

As an unknown in figure skating you can't win. However, the 1 time in a million that my curling team is good enough to beat the other teams, we end up winning. That's what makes a sport.

Now, I am going to change figure skating to gymnastics as I believe you were grouping them all together there, and say that I think that's completely untrue. I just turned to my sister the other day (a former competitive gymnast) and said to her "You really can't have an off day in this sport" and she flat out agreed with me. Why is that? Because you are judged as of the moment, against other competitors. If you fall, you're out. If you are well known and fall, you're still out. The same as anyone else. Everyone is judged against the same standards, the same required elements and the same points for harder elements. And at the olympic/world level, it's all about elements and the completion of them. There is no room for artistic points, everything they do is required. So, if one time in a million you hit your routine, get every element, and do it better than anyone, you will win. Why? Because you're getting the most points, just like curling.

To do 'fine' in gymnastics, you have to start very, very young. Pretty much sacrificing a part of your childhood to it.

This is true, gymnastics takes years of dedication. But if there are young girls and boys out there sacrificing their childhoods it's either because they want to, or because their parents make them. Let's not look down on the sport just because people are willing to put their lives into it. I grew up with a sister who was deep into competitive gymnastics. It did rule her life. But she loved it. And the minute that she wanted out, she left. No pressure. Just because others haven't had the ability to walk away or have controlling parents who force them to continue does not mean that gymnastics should not be considered a sport.

One of the worst things that can happen to a young gymnyst is that she gets her period. So they train them and put them on diets that will delay it as much as possible.

Okay, I don't know exactly where you get your facts, but again, you're judging a sport on isolated incidents. I'm sure there are girls out there who go on diets etc., once they hit puberty and start gaining weight. But the reality is this.....small girls make the best gymnasts. They have a smaller centre of gravity, and can rotate around it a hell of a lot faster. They are also lighter on their feet, balance better than someone taller, and there will be less injury on their joints if they are small.

This is no different than saying that, generally, tiny guys can't be sumo wrestlers. They can gain weight and really try, but there is an accepted body type for sumo wrestlers, just as there is an accepted body type for gymnasts. Even with dieting and trying to stop your period (what???) and stopping your boobs from growing (impossible) it will eventually be clear that certain girls just won't make it. That's when they stop trying. But let them try up till then if they want! Unless you have a sick/depraved coach or parents, it's not going to hurt you, as most people don't take it that far.

Also, some of the completely legitimate sports that were mentioned below are all candidates for getting admitted to the olympics. They're trying to get there. It's not gymnastics' or figure skating's fault that they didn't try earlier. Probably the real reason that they're not part of the olympics? They weren't the crazy popular sports 100 years ago. They are now. So they'll get in. Just be patient and stop slagging sports that you don't enjoy.

And that's that. It is a competition. com·pe·ti·tion
The act of competing, as for profit or a prize; rivalry.
A test of skill or ability; a contest: a skating competition.
All gymnastics is about is testing skill and ability. And it is definitely not a beauty contest. There is absolutely no such thing as needing to wear the right amount of makeup. But please, prove me wrong, Find it in the rule books. However, do not make your point on heresay.

Uh oh
Posted by phduffy on Aug 24, 2004
So, Canada loses to Japan 9-1 and Cuba 5-2, then beats Australia.

This makes the final standings:


Okay, no big deal, right? Worst case, we lose to Cuba in the semi final, then beat Australia in the Bronze medal game, right?

This morning Australia beat Japan. Meaning that if we don't beat Cuba today at noon, we're going to get stomped by Japan in the Bronze medal game.

So go Canada!
Beat the dirty Commies and go for the gold!

Oh Yeah
Posted by phduffy on Aug 24, 2004
Cuba's starting a left handed pitcher today, which sucks for Canada.

Canada is full of left handed dudes, so a left handed pitcher is bad news...
And this guy shut them out earlier.


For those of you scoring at home...
Posted by phduffy on Aug 24, 2004
Canada's now down 2-1 at the end of the 4th inning.

One of Canada's player's goes by the name Stubby Clap.

His given name is Richard.

Oh yeah
Posted by phduffy on Aug 24, 2004
Stubby's wife's name is Chastity.

Posted by phduffy on Aug 24, 2004
Canada got a 3-2 lead, then gave up 6 runs in the bottom of the eighth.

Then they were able to score twice, and have the tying run at the plate.

He hit a long flyball that the Cuban left fielder caught while just about on the wall. He was this close to tying the game with his home run!

dancing with yourself
Posted by bryan on Aug 25, 2004

are there two phduffys attempting to communicate across a dimensional rift?

The potential S'PLODE from alternate universe duffy meeting with regular duffy could DESTROY US ALL!

Posted by phduffy on Aug 25, 2004
Japan beat CAnada 11-2 in the Bronze Medal game.

If only they'd beaten Australia we'd pretty much have a guaranteed medal.

Oh well.

Posted by phduffy on Aug 25, 2004
You can call it a sport or not, it just depends on your definition. By my defintion of sports it's not a sport.

So, if one time in a million you hit your routine, get every element, and do it better than anyone, you will win. Why? Because you're getting the most points, just like curling.

Well, let's review this. So far in this Olympics we've had the South Korean have the best performance in the All Around, only to lose to Paul Hamm of the US due to scoring.

Then we had Canadian Gold medal winner Schwefelt (sp) come in fourth in one of his events, despite the fact that the third place finisher tripped on his landing, and people can't understand the scoring.

Then, in the uneven bars (it may have been the parallel bars) we had the Russian competitor pull off one of the most impressive routines EVER. He had 6 release moves, and a slight stumble on his landing. He was then scored to come in 6th.
However, this was so obviously not right that the fans started booing, and didn't stop for 8 minutes! At this point the two judges that gave the lowest scores (a Canadian and another judge) GAVE HIM HIGHER SCORES.
So yes, the result was influenced BY HOW MUCH THE CROWD BOOED.
However, these higher scores still weren't that great, so the crowd booed again.
Then, the Italian guy (after Paul Hamm went) pulled off a routine even better than that of the Russian! But didn't get first. So now we have investigations and other nonsense, all because the sport of gymnastics is based on the arbritrary definitions of what counts as points. I'll grant you that unlike Figure Skating or Rythmic gymnastics there's no point for artistic merit (which is of course impossible to rationally judge), but the sport is still full of nonsense.

But wait, let's see what 1996 Olympic Gold Medal winner Kerry Strug has to say on the issues:
"With so many factors determining a competitor's marks, you can never completely control your own fate -- and the best man or woman does not always win," she writes. "In fact, for gymnasts, the order in which you compete can have as much to do with your score as your actual performance. Those who go first endure lower scores, so the judges have room to grade upwards if the gymnasts who follow turn in a better routine."

Does an 8 year old that sacrifices her childhood so that she can be a gymnast for 8 hours a day really love it? Does she even know what she's missing? I guess that's an argument for a different day. We'll assume that they love it. I may have had two seperate ideas in my original post. The fact that some parents are controlling doens't mean that something isn't a sport. Tiger Wood's dad is a lunatic, that doens't make golf any less of a sport. That's just anothe seedy aspect of girl's gymnastics. I will give them credit though, at least they've raised the minimum age required to compete.

As for the injury risk, from what I've read there's a huge risk to these girls in gymnastics. The problem is that when you compete at this level and you're body's not fully formed yet, you strain and injure developing muscles, which is not good news. If small girls make the best gymnists, why aren't all the guys tiny? Why is being 115lbs a horrendous disadvantage?
Note - I never said they try to stop their boobs from growing. I did say that they try to delay their periods, but I can't find anything for that, so ignore it, I shouldn't have said it.

The fact that Sumo wrestlers have a lifestyle that involves treating their bodies poorly does not mean that it's okay for gymnists to treat their bodies poorly. And Sumo wrestling isn't an Olympic sport. I think the better comparision is jockeys. (From horse racing - which would kind of be a neat Olympic sport). They're similar to gymnasts in that size is a terrible thing for them. I belive that most race tracks have a toilet near the stables just for puking (since some jockies puke before every race).

I find it extremely hard to believe that cricket has ever been less popular than rythmic gymnastics. Gold was an Olympic sport until 1904 until it was removed. I suspect that the reason some sports are in and others aren't is completely historical. The modern pentathalon is in because it gave blue bloods something to do.

To clarify, this has nothing to do with sports I don't enjoy. I find cricket to be extremely boring. I would probably rather watch someone on the uneven bars than watch a cricket match. That doens't change the fact that cricket should be in, based on its popularity and the fact that it's a sport, while, in my opinion, some of these other sports should not.

As for the makeup, I am not going to look through all the various rulebooks. I suspect it's not there! However, it's pretty obvious that you need to wear makeup. Otherwise they wouldn't do it! You dont' see the sprinters or the swimmers or the soccer players wearing makeup, as it has no effect on the outcome of the game, so they don't do it. They're not going to pay someone to go overseas to do their makeup.

ha ha ha...I knew it
Posted by Katie on Aug 25, 2004
I KNEW you would come back with the argument of all the mistakes. Yes, it's been a terrible Olympics for mistakes. But gymnastics is not the only one.

What about the time Kelly Gruber got a triple play? The refs said he didn't, but from the replays you can see he did. Or how about foul balls that are called fair and result in possibly game winning home runs? What about a soccer or hockey ref not calling an offside, which allows a winning goal? Mistakes are possible in all sports.

I was prepared for that one.

Other than that, I am really really busy at work right now and don't have time to rebut. But I will. OH I will!

Posted by phduffy on Aug 26, 2004
The Blue Jays won the triple play game 3-2 over Atlanta.

There is a large difference between someone making a mistake (what happens in baseball and other sports) and making nonsensical evaluations based on aesthetics, or something else that no one really understands.

Mistakes will always happen, you can't eliminate that. But even with mistakes everything is evaluated objectively, as opposed to the beauty pagent sports, where everything is subjective.

Other than that, I'd suggest if you want to use an example of a baseball play that was nonsense, you google George Brett + Pine tar. It was a very strange situation.

Posted by Katie on Aug 27, 2004
the gymnastics "mistakes" were not based on nonsensical evaluations based on aesthetics.

One judge mistakenly put his score into the computer improperly. Another judge mistakenly bowed to pressure and changed his score. He is now saying that it was a mistake, and he should have maintained his original score.

These had nothing to do aesthetics.

Posted by phduffy on Aug 27, 2004
The only reason the Russian didn't win was because of some nonsensical aethestics concerns. If the judge should have retained his original score, we just see the point that gymnastics scores have no basis in reality.
What about the Italian that got screwed?

The South Korean was a data entry mistake. I'll grant you that.

I guess maybe the judge should have kept his original low score because there were still a decent amount of competitors left to go, and we all know (via Kerry Strug) that you can't give a high score too early in the competition, no matter how good the routine.

I mean, that makes perfect sense.

Another column
Posted by phduffy on Aug 27, 2004
this time by Bill Simmons.

he lists his defintion of sports. You might interested in his take on what's obviously gymnastics.
I don't agree with everything he said (his defintion leaves out golf and curlnig), but he's an interesting writer.

Plus, he goes all white supremacist in this column, so that's cool.

Posted by phduffy on Oct 13, 2004
First Off, would TSN and Sportsnet FUck off with the Daily updates on the the NHL Lockout? They're locked out for the year! That's it, no more news! The fucking baseball playoffs are going on for fuck's sake!



So, when you're interviewed as the fan on the street about this, don't say that!

I don't get how anyone can support the owners. You can say they're both dicks, I can follow that, but to say that you support the owners?